Being extra conscious now of techeles, I'm noticing what other people are wearing, and it surprises me that so few people are wearing techeles. To me it seems a pretty simple choice: the researchers seem to have very solid proof that that the stuff they're producing is the real techeles mentioned in the Torah. And even if you say there's some doubt as to whether it really is techeles, what have you got to lose? At worst you've got a dye on your tzitzis that doesn't make them invalid; at best you're fulfilling an extra mitzva d'oraysa, every minute of the daylight hours, for which the reward is eternal!
Is techeles too expensive? Most people are prepared to invest a fair bit of money in hiddurim/optional extras, such as buying a top-of-the-range esrog for Sukkos, or tefillin with completely black straps. So if you're prepared to pay 200 NIS or more for a nice lulav/esrog set, with which you're going to perform a mitzva d'oraysa exactly once if you're lucky (this year 1st day Sukkos falls on shabbos, so the entire mitzva of lulav will be d'rabbanan this year) - why would you not spend 160 NIS on something that is a mitzva d'oraysa (even if you have some doubt), that you can do every single day, every minute of the daylight hours?
I don't really buy the financial argument; I'm guessing that the reason why more people aren't wearing techeles is partly because people haven't really thought that hard about it, and partly because it's perceived as a political statement: I know one charedi Rabbi who wears techeles, but tucks in his tzitzis so that he doesn't get ostracized by the rest of his charedi chevra.
I'm especially interested to hear if you are opposed to wearing techeles - why?
What do you think? Please
Later Edit: I have taken down the poll, because some immature, insecure person has obviously written a bot to skew the results. I mean, I may be very popular and loved, but even I doubt my ability to attract some 45 people within an hour to visit my blog, let alone vote in a poll... and funnily enough, all of them were "ideologically opposed to techeles".
This reaction is very disturbing, because it says to me that someone feels so strongly against techeles that they are willing to violate "midavar sheker tirchak" (last week's parsha!) in order to push a certain agenda.
Why? What is so insidious, so subversive about techeles, that someone should feel the need to wage a holy war against a mitzva of the Torah?
36 comments:
I wear tchelet, in my tallis katan and my tallis gadol
Being unable to afford many things that I and my family need or want, and being unable to afford any but the cheapest Lulav-Etrog set; I certainly cannot afford to pay extra for Techelet with the present even worse economic downturn! As I recall, the original abandoning of the use of Techelet by Am Yisrael was connected to a similar situation. Techelet was expensive and difficult to get, and some people were selling phony Techelet as the real thing; so people stopped putting Techelet in their Tzitzit. I will be glad to purchase Techelet when I can afford other necessities as well!
Catriel,
Sorry if my posting was insensitive; I didn't mean to imply that the financial argument was invalid, just that it doesn't hold water from someone who does buy expensive lulav/esrog sets. But yes, there are plenty people out there who are in financial distress and cannot consider buying anything but the bare necessities.
The tradition for techeles was lost thousands of years ago and when I learned about this matter it was made very clear that it is halachically incorrect to re institute a tradition that has been lost. Those who are pushing the wearing of it cannot be 100% sure that what they have is correct. As far as I see it they have nmade many assumptions which they cannot show with certainty reflect the Techeles that was previously "manufactured".
I think it is a great shame with so many other Mitvahs that we can perfect we have to try with a mitzvah where ther is a sofek.
hi, in looking for the right response to your poll, it wasnt there. Here is my thoughts. First I like the idea, but it doesnt seem to have caught on with any uniformity. So far I have seen 3 obviously, distinct shades of blue, not one. So I am more waiting until many of the Chabbadniks start, and use one color. So, until then, here waiting to see.
Anon 18:38 - from what you've written, I can understand your hesitation, but not your opposition. Why do you think it's wrong to attempt to fulfill a mitzva of the Torah in the absence of 100% certainty?
Let's say there was only one esrog left in the world, and it was safek pasul. Would you refuse to do the mitzva because of the safek, or would you do it anyway (granted, without a bracha) on the off chance that maybe it's kosher?
As for it being wrong to attempt to reinstate a tradition - well, we haven't lost the tradition: it's written clearly in the gemara what the simanim are of the chilazon. If you find a creature that matches the simanim, then you've probably got the right one. And even if you consider it a "tradition that was lost" - what's the aveira in reinstating it? Can you bring any other examples of a mitzvas aseh where we "lost the tradition", and are henceforth forbidden to do the mitzva anymore?
Levi Krol - there are different types of "techeles" out there. The type that Machon Ptil Tekhelet is producing is from Murex Trunculus. The Breslovers and a handful of other followers of the Radzhyner Rebbe use a different dye that comes from a squid. That would account for 2 shades. That said, though, I compared tzitzis with another friend who also bought the Murex Trunculus techeles, and his were noticeably darker than mine...
re a "lost tradition" - the claim that we cannot do it because the tradition is lost,(tradition means passed down, so once lost, how does it appear again?) is effectively claiming a mitzva de'oraita is not eternal. that is a very dangerous statement, if not worse.
re "shades" - darker does not mean a different shade, it means more intense. it can still be (and is) the same wavelength, which is what defines colour. just play witht he brightness and contrast on your computer screen to see what I mean....
re: cost - clearly cost is a factor, as with any mitzva, and ones personal priorities if it is a choice to be made. and the Ramba"m indeed says the punishment for being without techelet is less due to its high cost. But if one can, better money on techelet (as opposed to losing the mitzva) than
money on "hidur", often beyond the call of duty.
I will add, there are many opinion on the way to tie techelet, all interpretations of the same gemara and midrashim - and presumably all valid. why do we have to assume there is only "one way" to tie them?
I have had the privilege of wearing techelet for about 15 years already, tied in different methods, (some darker some lighter, all the same colour/hue) and I cannot imagine being without it.
simply put: "venatnu al tzitzit hakanaf p'til techelet"
PR
Please see my "Later Edit" in the original posting... somebody vandalized the poll...
I have been wearing tchelet for a few years now on my talit gadol, moving to talit katan only when I was able to pay for at least two sets so that I cannot be without once making the commitment. I think it is a no-brainer, exactly as you stated - no-lose. My rav also wears it, as well as about 20%+ of our kehilla (at least tallit gadol).
Disturbing to me is the comment by anonymous (why do those who are "anti" hide behind anonymity?) who clearly has not researched the topic him/herself when he says that the tradition was lost 1000s of years ago. In any case, there is a widespread position that holds that we cannot reinstate what is lost in tradition. However, I am not sure why - I know that tradition is relevant with kosher animals (and there is no tradition for turkey so ask your local 'cannot renew tradition person' why they eat turkey).
Bottom line, the tradition may have been lost but the science remains the same and all indications are that it is the right tchelet. That said, due to safek, we don't tie it in shaatnez nor can we be sure to use it for bigdei kehuna (which may be the sole impediment for not doing korban Pesach today - a mitzva that carries a karet penalty for NOT performing.)
I have been wearing tchelet B"H for about 10 years. It was lost to Am Yisrael not for financial reasons, but rather because it was considered a sign of nobility/royalty, & any commoner that wore it was liable to be killed.
The main halachic counter-argument today is: we cannot renew any lost mitzvot without masoret (but ask how many of those people eat turkey!). The response to this counter argument is the original argument by the Rodzhiner rebbe: Even if there is no masoret, 'mimah nafshach! If it's right, we got the mitzvah, & if it's wrong, we haven't lost anything.
A secondary counter-argument (from Rav Shlomo Aviner) is: it is 'yohara' (i.e. pride) to take a mitzva on without the authourization of the rabbanim. My personal response: I don't think it is 'yohara' to perform a mitzvah de'oraita. One could argue based on that approach that Jews should not have come to Israel from Europe before the holocaust, since most of the rabbanim were against it....
So why don't more people wear it? I don't know....
It's very interesting how most of the comments here are in favor of techeles, with only one really in opposition. Yet one techeles opponent felt so strongly about it that they decided to cheat on the poll.
Why? Why should techeles arouse such strong feelings that a good, religious Jew should feel justified in engaging in such underhanded behavior? It's very perplexing to me, and I hope someone has a good explanation...
perhaps he feels guilty about it and this is how he justifies it in his own mind - by showing such strong opposition he silences his own doubts. you probably need a shrink to answer your question...
By the way, addressing your response to the comment from the anonymous who opposes it, the opinion of Brisk and the Soloveitchik family is that once a mesorah is considered lost 9and they consider the traidtion of which chilazon was correct to be lost), it cannot be renewed until mashiach comes and renews it. So according to them this tcheles is wrong and there is no point in wearing it.
but that is only Brisk.
You can find a tremendous amount of articles and resources on the Ptil Techelet website, and a sefer was published a number of years ago that goes through all the basic arguments for and against (the author supports it, and the book has a haskama from rav Moshe Halberstam). I do not remember what it is called offhand, but I have it at home. You can find it on the Ptil Tcheles website I think
Following that up with the comments of other people here: do the Briskers eat turkey?
I dont know specifically about whether or not they eat turkey, but in general I have found the real briskers to be pretty straight and not just pick and choose for convenience. the real briskers are pretty consistent, which i think is fine. if that is their derech, adn they are consistent about it, I ahve no problem with it.
I was not convinced that the modern dye that is claimed to be techelet is really techelet. Why should I pay so much for blue dye? I am not against YOU doing it, but I know someone that can use your ~500sh donation to buy food. You can also add purple or red, this would look nice too!
Your etrog argument doesn't hold water for me. It is a mentioned hiddur to spend a bit more on a nicer etrog, (and I would advise you or others to limit it to a third more than a kosher one for the same reason as above). Adding color to your tzittit is not a specified hiddur.
Anon 14:09 -
The etrog point is a kal vachomer: if you're willing to spend extra on a hiddur of a mitzva that you're doing anyway, why would you not spend extra on a mitzva d'oraysa that you would otherwise be neglecting completely? Yes, you're in doubt as to whether it really is the real techeles - but do you need 100% certainty? If you were 50% convinced that it was the real techeles, still, why would you not take the chance? You can't lose!
I think most people's objection to tzitzis (Briskers aside) is not really about halacha, but political in nature. For some unfathomable reason, techeles seems to have become (incorrectly) associated with the Dati Leumi world, and therefore knee-jerk blackballed (in general) by the Charedi world.
BTW, techeles costs 160 NIS a set, not 500 NIS. Anyway your tzedaka analogy is invalid; would you ever suggest that I don't buy an esrog and instead give the money to tzedaka?
500 shekels is the minimum investment, as I would need at least 3 sets.
I would not suggest you "don't buy an esrog and instead give the money to tzedaka", as we are required to do 4 minim. We are not (at least now) required to do techelet.
You ask what I have to lose; the answer is money and time. And I don't buy reason for the gain
Anon 13:50 - "We are not (at least now) required to do techelet."
Meheicha taysi?
How do you know we are not required to do techeles? Yes, for about 2,000 years we were b'geder "ones rachmana patrei" - we didn't have techeles and were therefore perforce exempt from the mitzva. But now that we have a very credible opinion that this is the real techeles, do you not at least owe it to yourself to follow up and check if this could be the real thing? Coz if it is, what's your excuse for not wearing it? Even if you can only afford one set of tzitzis, and 2 sets would take it above the 20% of your net worth that you're required to spend for a mitzvas asei, you should at least have that one set so that you can wear it 1/3 of the time?
It often helps to clarify these things if you imagine the discussion you're going to have with HKB"H after 120 years...
Dialogue A:HKBH: I see you were wearing blue threads in your tzitztis. What for?
Ben Adam: I was fulfilling the mitzva of p'sil techeles.
HKBH: You fool! That wasn't even the real techeles! You wasted 480 NIS buying 3 sets of techeles, and they weren't even the real thing!
BA: Oops. But I figured it was worth the gamble, in case it really was the real thing.
Dialogue B:HKBH: I see you weren't wearing techeles in your tzitzis. Why not?
Ben Adam: Because we lost the tradition of how to get techeles.
HKBH: But it was rediscovered, with very strong evidence of its being genuine, and marketed to the public by those fine folks at Machon Ptil Tekhelet. Did you not hear of them?
Ben Adam: Well, I did, but I wasn't sure it was the real thing, and I didn't want to waste my money in case it wasn't.
HKBH: You're telling me you couldn't afford 160 NIS of your Olam HaZeh currency for a chance at fulfilling one of My mitzvos that I gave you in My Torah, for which the reward is eternal?
BA: Um, I mean, I could have afforded it, but I preferred to spend the money on... uh... other things...
I think the conversation starts to go downhill from there.
So which dialogue would you prefer to be on the wrong end of - A or B?
Have been with Techelet for a year and a half now, all tallitot (big and small).
I must admit, tho, that it took me a long time to go from "yes, it's prolly the right thing" to actually ordering the strings. I kept it as a "dream" for at least a few years (yes, I'm a horrible procrastinator).
I wonder if, talk of traditions aside, there isn't simply a psychological barrier of sorts in people's minds about doing something that "hasn't been done before". And it can take a lot of time to overcome it and actually take novel action.
I think you might be right about the political aspect of Techelet; however, I have seen many ppl in what would be called "Haredi" attire who had techelet. So I hope that, as with many other halachic and hashkafa issues, the Haredi layman is slowly developing independent thought away from askanim party lines.
How about Dialogue C:HKBH: I see you weren't wearing techeles in your tzitzis. Why not?
Ben Adam: I followed my Rav, who says that we lost the tradition of how to get techeles.
HKBH:You get full points for following your Rav, Heaven is over there on your right, have an olam haba metuka.
I do not agree that "most people's objection to tzitzis is not really about halacha, but political in nature". I just don't think that there is enough proof and my Rabbi (and most other rabbis) agree. BTW, saying that so and so animal has the BEST fit to the description of what the techelet animal should be, doesn't mean that it is the RIGHT animal. (Just the best we have found, look at the Radzyners).
B"H
Nice post.
I intend to be tying tekheleth into the tzitzith when I have my new four cornered garment completed,...hopefully before Shavu'oth.
I just saw this post of Rabbi Shlomo Aviner's opinion on tchelet. it might interest you...
http://www.ravaviner.com/2009/05/techelet.html
Of course, according to Rav Lior, Rav Levanon, and Rav Dov Levine, among others, until Aviner takes care of that nasty business regarding his rulings of tohorath hamishpahah, it is forbidden to listen to his opinions, read his books and articles, or even ask him any question, as he is "moreh la'avor issurei karath."
And, no, it doesn't matter if he's right or wrong on a particular issue.
http://shlomo-aviner.blogspot.com/
That comment by Rav Aviner actually shook me up quite a lot. Rafi, thanks for the link. Ben-Yehuda, it doesn't matter if some people have a problem with Rav Aviner's psakim; the mussar in what he's saying is very pertinent, especially the part about yuhara. And about possibly being moreh halacha bifnei rabbo.
I haven't stopped wearing techeles, and I don't think I will, but for the time being, I'm tucking my tzitztis in...
It has nothing to do with whether I have a problem with this rav or that.
I'm talking about halacha, and feelings should not come into play.
The Gedolei HaDor of the RZ and some in the Haredi community have ruled. It doesn't matter if I like it or not.
Someone I know once asked the mashgiach ruchani in yeshiva (I'll leave out the names in case I misquote) about wearing techelet, and he was particularly concerned with the issue of yuhara (this was 16+ years ago, before techelet was as widespread as it is today, and there was even a waiting list to get it).
The answer was anashim holchim im kookoo mipo, v'kookoo misham, v'ata doeg al techelet? (loose translation: People are walking around with all sorts of crazy hairstyles, and you're worried about techelet [being a form of yuhara]?)
Anon 4:59:
Imagine an alternate ending to dialogue C, where HKB"H asks what other mitzvot d'oraita you have avoided doing on your Rav's advice, and if you maybe should have considered finding a new Rav (or at least asking the Rav if there is any danger in wearing techelet). This is seems to be a case of divrei harav v'divrei hatalmid, with the talmid of course representing the Rav, and the rav representing HKB"H.
I'm surprised that none of the "anti" people have brought up the issue of kala ilan (which I don't really think is a problem in connection with Ptil Techelet's product, but perhaps the absence the issue being raised betrays a lack of knowledge of all the facts).
Yoni - from what i understand, kala Ilan is not an issue, because kala ilan was a specific flower from which the blue dye could be produced. the issur of kala ilan is not wearing blue. The issur is to make blue specifically from the specific flower. If you make the wrong blue from something else, it might not be tchelet, but it would also not be kala ilan.
Furthermore, the Ramba"m says that one dyes the [white] tzitzith the same color as the garment {Surprised, everyone, that not all beged tzitzith were white?}, with the exceptions of blue and black {close to blue}.
Rafi's right. The issue is not color.
In your next post you eloquently describe HaRav Azriel Chaim Goldfein Zatzal. You mention you were impressed by his balance and realization that every Chumra is a Kula some other way. Wearing Techeles is wonderful yet just like he held to build a Mehudar Mikva you are saying that the other Mikva is not good, the same when you wear Techeles you are saying that all those gedolim and people that do not are doing something wrong. I do not think that Rabbi Goldfein Zatzal or either of his children who have taken over his position wore or wear Techeles. My father does not, neither did his, and neither did his, so am I supposed to say I got it right and you got it wrong????
"Love Your Blog":
a) Thanks for the compliment!
b) Yes, I did think about that afterwards, especially after the posting relating to what Rav Aviner said.
I do see a difference, though, largely due to the fact that the techeles we have today is a recent rediscovery (less than 2 decades!) of something that we lost the tradition for. Techeles as such is not a hiddur or a chumra; if this really is the real McCoy, then basic halacha would be to wear techeles, and the main reason why more people aren't wearing it might be simply be that it hasn't been well enough publicized or well enough accepted. If we all knew 100% that this was the real techeles, everybody would be rushing out to buy it!
Furthermore, wearing techeles is not motzi laaz the way opening a new mikveh could be on the old one; nobody is saying that plain white tzitzis are pasul, C"V. Nobody got it wrong; they just didn't have techeles available to them.
That said, I do accept the point that yuhara might apply, or maybe even moreh halacha bifnei rabbo. Which is why, at least for the time being, I'm tucking my tzitzis in.
Just for the record though, there are some pretty senior and serious names out there who do wear techeles, e.g. R' Z.N. Goldberg and pretty much all of the Zilberman family. It appears that the people who have put research into the matter are coming out more convinced of its authenticity; at any rate, I have not seen or heard any serious rebuttal of Murex Trunculus as the authentic source of techeles, which I would have expected to see if anyone had researched it and found otherwise...
I recently read this (negative) opinion on techeles:
http://www.yeshiva.org.il/midrash/Shiur.asp?id=7683
I have no idea how accurate it is (you all have obviously researched this more than I have), but the arguments are clearly of interest.
I think most people that dont wear techilles among the chareidim is simply because the rabbonim not havent said TO WEAR the blue, but some - most notably RYSE - has written NOT to wear it.
Now you have a question as to WHY? Why should the biggest poseik in the world not want to fulfill an extra hiddur as you call it ? Good question, to which there is only one answer, and that is he feels that there is NO reason TO wear the blue.
In his teshuva he brings that when the previous blue was thought the be the real deal, the beis haleivi came out against it. Following that Gadol haDor's footsteps, the current poseik hador also says NOT to wear it.
Also see the rema in siman 9 (i believe) where he says that there is a minhag to wear white strings on a white beged. Being that this is the minhag, unless you have solid reason to change, we dont charge the minhag because some people feel we have found the lost mesorah.
e.g. R' Z.N. Goldberg and pretty much all of the Zilberman family
No disrespect to the aforementioned Talmidei chachamim, but neither one is considered one of the chareidi gedolim / leaders.
And neither one is NEW to wearing the blue strings.
Who has recently become a member of the "blue community" - as mentioned that many rabbonim are becoming more and more convinced - as mentioned in the comments. And I dont mean lay folk, and I dont mean Rabbis. I mean recognized Gedolim / Manhigim
A year and a half has gone by since your discussion of this subject. Have we seen any change in the Charedi world with regard to acceptance? I believe that the answer is yes but am not sure.
Boker tov, Anon, nice to see you after nearly 2 years!
What makes you think techeles is gaining traction in the charedi world?
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