Let me start by admitting that I'm not the fastest davener in the world.
Actually, that rather understates the point. I think I must be well slower than the median, because I don't remember the last time I actually got to answer physically to a kedusha rather than relying on shomeia k'oneh, unless it's been at my home kehilla, Shivtei Yeshurun, where we do give people considerably more time to finish their silent amida.
I can understand that different people will daven at different speeds, and I don't expect everyone to cater to my preferred pace. But as one who is more sensitive than most to slight variances in the speed at which the shaliach tzibur davens, I am a little disconcerted by what I perceive as a tendency specifically among "dati leumi" communities to pray at a much faster pace than "charedi" shuls. I don't understand why this is, because it doesn't seem to fit into any of the classical philosophical or political areas that are under dispute between the DL and Charedi communities: it's not about Medinat Yisrael; it's not about "Chadash asur min haTorah"; it's not about tz'nius; it's not about relating to the non-frum world. Tefilla (and kavana during prayer) is about our relationship with Hashem, and that's an area where it shouldn't make any difference whether you believe that the State of Israel is holy or evil incarnate.
In case anyone has misunderstood me, let me be clear: yes, this is a gross generalization. I know plenty of "dalim" who daven way slower than I do, and I know plenty of "charedim" who go so fast that I cannot believe they are actually saying all the words. But the general rule is that "dalim" daven fast and "charedim" daven slow. I don't understand why this is, and I'm hoping that you will illuminate me with your comments.
4 comments:
The Tongue in cheek answer:
"Dalim" have to get to work.
A possible answer:
It has more to do with fluency in Hebrew as native tongue.
A more likely answer:
"Dati Leumi" is a general term that can describe ANYONE who wears a kipa other than a velvet black one. Consequently it includes a wide range of kehillos from the less observant to the most observant.
"Chareidi" on the other hand tends to be far more homogeneous, and on the more observant end.
Hence a "like for like" comparison may yield no difference but since you're comparing a homogeneous group with a non-homogeneous group you might as well compare "apples" with "fresh produce"
This answer also accounts for a large number of the inconsistent, irrelevant and unfair comparisons between the two "hashkofas"
Your thoughts?
Hi Shaul
I'm sure you won't like this theory, but I think it is true:
As a gross generalization DL in practice has become a way of institutionalising leniencies (ie having Judaism intrude as little as possible on my lifestyle)
whereas Charedi practice has become a way of institutionalising stringincies(ie having Judaism intrude as much as possible on my lifestyle)
This difference in approach is what actually causes the differences in hashkafa, and not the other way around
Yes, I do believe that on quite a deep level speed of prayer is a derivative of hashkofa. Have a look at my latest post Living on a prayer and see if you can see what I'm getting at.
You say correctly that praying is about our relationship with God, and I think that has much to do with our views on the State of Israel and the political issues that divide the two groups.
I hope to try to explain it clearly shortly. B'yedidus, Simon
Simon,
Initially I was a little disturbed by what you wrote. I then read your blog and gave it some thought.
I think though that although the hashkofa may drive the focus put on prayer (i.e. only salvation vs one of the methods vs a concurrent action), you are still missing the fundamental point that you're not comparing apples with apples.
On a hashkofik level as well as a general observance level, Haredi hashkofa is largely (or at least relatively) monolithic and homogeneous whereas "Dati Leumi" is patently not.
I also think as a matter of world view we should be looking to increase our empathy before removing the motes from our fellow Jew's eyes.
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